Very helpful for Zwift and the road, thanks a lot for putting this together. While British Cycling races out in the real world are split into categories based on your points in previous races, Zwift races let you choose your category based on your watts per kilogram. On really flat roads I am never dropped (until the first sign of a tiny rise). As a larger rider (102kg w ~375 FTP) I try to stay at end of back of the front of the pack up the hill (top 10-20 positions) but really roll over the top hard. 1. This is not what happens IRL or what happens using http://bikecalculator.com/ this is because the normal force… Read more », That’s now what I’m seeing in my tests at all. Also, steepness of the climb matters–the steeper the climb, the greater the difference will be between riders of different weights but same w/kg. This is why when it gets steep, guys like Ollie Jones and Alex West are absolute machines! It was mostly a flat route (6 laps around volcano) and I was not in the front group a lot. There are a lot of variables in play here, but you can’t deny that lighter riders generally drop heavier riders on climbs. But the opposite on the hills. The lighter riders that excel going up hills IRL have a higher w/kg than the other rides. Maybe my drafting style worse on Zwift? Wattboard is actually free too. Except in the top category, light riders do not have an advantage on hills, since riders get grouped together based on W/kg. Dunbar’s heart rate was higher than some … Notably, the median (50th percentile) twenty minute effort in watts per kilogram for males and females is exactly the same at 3.80W/kg, which means the average male and female Cycling Analytics user should be able to ride up a mountain at about the same speed. Eric,. So at some point the switch happens, and at what grade hill that happens depends on the difference between the two riders. Watts win races or even just KoMs. Then if you get dropped and lose the draft’s 25% power savings, you’ll need to put out 312w just to keep pace with the group. Mouse over each point in the graph to see the w/kgand time of each ZwiftPower user’s Alpe personal best! I made 284 vs 235 w and 4.44 vs 3.92 w/kg. When going uphills the light and heavy riders are more or less fairly matched because w/kg matters more than pure watts and the light and heavy riders have a similar w/kg. No kidding. Its a known issue because i use an old elite realaxiom wired trainer. Start with 3×8 minutes at “sweet spot” with 4 minutes easy spinning in between. Watts per kg is great, but if you are 100+ kg in weight it doesn’t necessarily work. Can someone school… Read more », Rider A IS more efficient, in your example. If you've done an FTP test, this becomes painfully clear (quite literally in some cases!). The reason the top C riders are heavier is because most of the races are on flat courses! Thank you for all you do and cheers to 2020 being a great year for you and no more power outages. After retiring from his 17-year pro career, Dan Fleeman tried his hand at Zwift racing. I am regularly trounced by riders with lesser w/kg – due to height alone. The pack would be traveling at 40.6kph. NP would tell the better story. Watch the other riders around you to see what W/kg … If that’s the case, you should have a chance to win uphill races while the light rider has little/no chance of winning the flat races. I’m 6’5″ and about 195 – 200 lbs – so I meet your tall (and skinnyish) comment. Because they’re putting out more watts, as well as overcoming gravity. Yes you’ve got more muscle mass when you’re big, but it doesn’t increase proportionally with height. Keep your power constant and decrease your weight. A person who weighs 155 pounds or roughly 70.3068 kilograms and can average 200 watts will have a w/kg of 2.70. 3 … For a lighter rider to beat you they will exceed w/kg limits and get DQ/upgraded. You can customise your meetup to keep everyone together. So enter the climbing races if you want to win, and I’ll enter the flat races if I want to win! Bass. I am a 195 lb guy. In 2018, the thing that took Zwift to the next level as a social network (as opposed to just another cycling app) was the ability to create group workouts. That’s a whopping 5.2w/kg, while the guy pulling in the pack is still just doing 4w/kg. This is completely the fault of a highly flawed category system. There are lots of variables in play–riders who compete outdoors with good equipment in very aero positions on smooth tarmac may find Zwift slower, while those who ride in a more upright position on poor roads with slow bikes will certainly find Zwift quite fast. But 60kg riders can! On my Zwift TT bike I can’t go nearly that fast on 270 watts. However tracking your Watts per Kilogram (W/kg) may produce the biggest results. On group rides my motto is “never behind the beacon!”. Or is it the same point, but more extreme difference on either end? Kwiatkowski averaged 5.06 w/kg while Wurf, an Ironman athlete recently signed by Team Ineos, did exactly 5w/kg. We feel your pain, and we’re here to help! Just curious, your saying a heavier rider will go faster with the same w/kg as a lighter rider on the flats. Here are the two top reasons why you’re getting beat by people who are putting out lower watts per kilogram. Coach Taylor Thomas outlines why W/kg is so important and how you can improve it. Today’s Accuracy Outlook. So yes, as it gets steeper heavier riders do go relatively faster. And remember: you’ll get ’em in the hills! that can be frustrating. But go to the hills or even on undulating roads and w/kg really starts to matter. If you're putting … Are there riders who purposely lower their virtual weight outside of races so they can complete all the hilly Zwift routes much quicker and therefore get to higher levels faster in order to get better bikes and wheels. Eric runs Zwift Insider in his spare time when he isn't on the bike or managing various business interests. Even when I’m pulling over 5.0w/kg I struggle sometimes. If you remember back to physics class, it takes more effort (power) to move bigger, heavier masses around than lighter ones. 240w is a lot less than 320w. As in real life, folks drafting behind me, but I tend to get very little benefit. W/KG categories and Zwift displaying other riders make us concentrate on w/kg as some sort of leveller and it is not. Rider categorization for racing on Zwift breaks down differently, although this may change when Zwift rolls out their racing features. In Zwift, you can always see your w/kg by looking at the number right below your name in the Riders list. People who race regularly may be 3.0-3.75. Height is such a huge factor on Zwift, too since its a stand in for CDA. Secondly, thanks to Zwift grouping riders according to their watt per kilo output - for categories from A to D ranging from 4w/kg to 1w/kg* - there is less chance of you being out of your depth. We need to test it more to find out how much of a difference. Can you get full drafting benefits in the bunch as a larger guy of 1m90 when others are all 1m60? Tools like kreuzotter.de’s calculator can give you good numbers here which reflect outdoor and Zwift physics quite well. On a separate note, Zwift speeds are greatly inflated on flat/rolling terrain for all height/weight groups. I would think it is more important to get to the same speed as the group behind you. Just like riding outdoors, lighter riders will be challenged to keep up with heavier, more powerful riders on flat courses. Because he was riding exactly on the 3.2wkg limit uphill… meaning, regardless of weight, anyone riding uphill faster would be doing over 3.2wkg (3.2 is 3.2, 60kg or 90kg) and thus get… Read more », Interesting stuff. You r for sure a great information data bank plus you get to use your math prowess. While British Cycling races out in the real world are split into categories based on your points in previous races, Zwift races let you choose your category based on your watts per kilogram. Your speed in Zwift is controlled by your power number, the level of effort you’re putting out at any given moment. There are several answers to this question, but first make sure you understand how Zwift is calculating your speed. It matters because those watts and watts per kg are being applied to the zwift world, where there is elevation variation on the roads. ... How I Increased My FTP By 140 Watts & My Top 5 Tips To Increase Cycling Power - … For example at 3.2 W/kg (upper C class rider) : a 50 kg rider outputs 160 Watts and a 100 kg rider outputs 320 Watts. If the course was truly flat, then my explanation would be that you’re much TALLER than the other riders. One thing not mentioned is that the categories and also the shown W/kg in Zwift is your power divided by your body weight but the speed calculation is based upon your power divided by your body + equipment weight. Quote | Reply. Ive seen people brag about their times with zwift on Strava… hahahahahaha the speeds are greatly exaggerated. These categories are based on watts per kilogram (w/kg) and your FTP level: You can search for Group Rides in the same way as Group Workouts, using the filters above, and the details within each ride will typical give you more details on the objective of that ride. Fortunately, Zwift behaves very much like the real world in terms of physics, so any understanding you may have of outdoor cycling physics will translate to Zwift, and any additional understanding you may gain from Zwifting will transfer outside. New to Zwift...whats the avg power output of a Zwifter? Watts per kilogram is the single most important metric when it comes to climbing, as it combines your power (watts) with your weight (kilograms). How could that be detected since it wouldn’t show up in ZwiftPower? Don’t feel like doing the math to find your number? On Zwift, it’s almost the opposite. There are basically just three ways in which you can affect change to W/kg. I wanted to find out the impact of weight: Given the same absolute power and aero configuration, the lighter rider generates more watts per kg and is therefore faster. Same “wattage”. Using this data we can make some time estimates based on w/kg: 2 w/kg: 90 minutes. The 60kg rider would need to hold 288 watts (4.8w/kg) in order to keep up with the 80kg rider, if drafting isn’t taken into the equation. Height makes a big speed difference in Zwift. You get above 3.75-4.25 and those are local elite racers. If it's a recovery day and there is a <2w/kg group I'll add 10lbs and I'm not shooting off the front. There are only two ways to boost your w/kg. His Watts per kg were the highest of all of those in the race. Average power tells you very little about the race. W/kg provides athletes and coaches a metric to compare riders of different body composition to one another, as well as understand how effective an athlete’s training is for the demands of a specific ride or race. I tested w/kg in March of last year and it fits with what is predicted: the heavier rider is faster, everywhere. Simple Watt/Kg Calc. How do you explain the lighter riders in real life pro races going off the front up the hills and dropping the heavier ones behind? For the Epic KOM (10km 3.9%), for every 10kg increase (at same w/kg) you go about 1.2% faster – (with diminishing returns at high kg) For the Radio Tower (1km 13%), the difference is about 1.8% faster for every 10kg (faster drop off curve) This is compared to the flat of approx 0.9% increments. You can increase your power output through training, and you can decrease your weight. The W/KG numbers represent the Power to Weight ratio of (Watts per Kg) and are calculated based on the weight you entered into Zwift. (This is assuming everything else is equal, of course–same height, bike, etc). “ B ” which is FTP of 3.2-3.9w/kg “ C ” which is FTP of 2.5-3.1w/kg “D” which is FTP of 1-2.4w/kg Completing a fitness test like the 4DP power profile or the Half Monty on The Sufferfest app will provide you with the watts per kilogram (Wkg) range needed to accurately select your racing category. For the same absolute power, the lighter rider should go up faster, since it generates more watts per kilogram. Strava has a great one for premium members or services such as Training Peaks or Wattsboard also has them. Your watts generated are what they are, but you move in the zwift world by applying those watts and watts per kg to the elevation of the road that you are virtually traversing. “And remember: you’ll get ’em in the hills!” — this is simply a false statement for every category except cat A and especially in cat C. It’s no coincidence that 9 out of the current top 10 cat C riders on zwiftpower are 85+kg (apart from the fact that half of em are sandbaggers, but that’s another discussion). OK, makes sense now that I think of it. My takeaway is that regardless of terrain/gradient if 2 riders have the exact same W/kg the heavier rider will always be faster due to the “pure wattage”. sticky drafts can also hinder you.. bigger/heavier guys cause more sticky on a smaller/light rider as you’re trying to get by them. But if you look at race results for “climby” races, the lighter riders win. A person who weighs 180 pounds or roughly 81.6466 kilograms and can also average 200 watts would have a lower w/kg of 2.33 putting them into Category D. Zwift Weight Cheating / Weight Doping Now here is where weight cheating or “weight doping” comes into play. If the weight of the bike is 8 kg, this gives an effective W/kg of … Hang on @misc , most of what you just said is what I was trying to say. Thanks for the quick response. To move up to the next rank, ZwiftPower will take 95 per cent of your 20-minute average w/kg figure from your previous three races. Couple this with the fact that others in the group can rotate through and take pulls so everyone stays fresh, and you’re going to have a very hard time catching the pack in this situation! Does the draft take a few seconds to kick in, seconds in which they might actually have blown by me, even if I’m matching their wattage? After a few rides on Zwift you’ll know. Posted by Eric Schlange | Jan 6, 2020 | Racing, Tips & Tricks | 77. Then Zwift will handle the rest. The difference is NOT greater on flats than hills. https://zwiftinsider.com/how-height-affects-speed-in-zwift/, could possibly be when you apply the power, pushing hard on a descent and going really easy on a climb will result in a slower time, Or going super hard for awhile then super easy for awhile, that will be slower on a flat course. Slovenian Zwift league uses most common group division format on Zwift and on Zwiftpower, and its based on individual abilities expressed in Watts per kg (W/kg) FTP above 4.0 W/kg FTP 3.2 to 4.0 W/kg FTP 2.5 to 3.2 W/kg FTP under 2.5 W/kg . Simple Watt/Kg Calc. Zwift provides five group ride and racing categories based on FTP (Functional Threshold Power) and measured in watts per kilo of body weight. Power-to-weight ratio – expressed in watts per kilogram (w/kg) – is what separates amateurs from the pros, and the daily commuter from the Cat. Because of this, when we take drafting out of the equation on a flat course, a heavier rider will always be faster than a light rider when both are doing the same w/kg–because the heavier rider is putting out more watts. A: 4.0 w/KG and FTP above 250 watts B: 3.2-3.9 w/KG and FTP above 200 watts C: 2.5-3.1 w/KG and FTP above 150 watts D: under 2.5 w/KG Taking myself as an example, with an FTP of 308 watts but a body mass of 83.6 kilograms, I fit squarely into the B category of racers at 3.7 w/KG. To use this calculator you will need to know your 5s / 1min / 5min / power numbers and your current FTP. Power is measured in watts and you can always see the watts you’re putting out by looking up in the top left corner of Zwift. To use this calculator you will need to know your 5s / 1min / 5min / power numbers and your current FTP. I’m working hard to keep up on the flat, then I get to the climbs and… they pull away? I disagree. I don’t disagree, @guest_29187 — your observations are spot on. On a smooth, flat road, cyclists with a greater power number will almost always go faster. Zwift Course Calendar – Current Guest World Sched... Ride All Zwift Routes and Get All the Badges in 12 Week... Matchmaking: How a Simple System Could Revolutionize Zw... Sticky Watts: Why They Exist, and How They Affect the Z... How to Race on Zwift (Setup, Strategy, and More), Read an in-depth discussion of Zwift’s draft, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13YWcTVAf2bDzeDqVIq_HullSgh1HLarQFg7Qyi5bFrw/edit?usp=sharing, https://zwiftinsider.com/how-height-affects-speed-in-zwift/, Shop for a trainer using our Smart Trainer Index. Others may draft behind you, but you will not receive any draft benefit. 100% Upvoted . With that said, if you want to improve, i would try to get the weight down. Matt – Exactly. Most recreations riders pay no attention to wind resistance and ride too upright (especially head), with baggy clothing. I find it so damn hard to get that number up. Training Articles. Posted by 2 hours ago. Shouldn’t light riders be able to have a chance at winning a flat race on zwift? W/kg matters as an indicator of performance and speed. Since power-to-weight ratio is determined by the simple formula power (watts) ÷ mass (kg), hopefully even the most non-mathematical readers can appreciate that … Where do you fit in? Don’t heavy and light riders have a more or less equal playing field on the uphill races in zwift? so if i intentionally drop my weight to reach my “real” W/kg, would this “cheat” allow me to follow riders in a fair way? Here’s a simplified example with numbers pulled from kreuzotter.de’s calculator: let’s say you are a 60kg rider racing in a pack being pulled by a 90kg rider who is putting out 360w (4w/kg). Yep, always find I go off too fast and can’t hold the wheel of the fast group so get dropped and realise I’m way ahead of the next group which is travelling the same speed as me. I was competing on TT race (TT bikes only) 17km there was 15 riders. Only chance I have are steep hills, which encompasses very few of the Zwift races and events. Q: is there a difference in drafting if behind larger guy or smaller guy, or is draft purely based on watts and wkg? The simplest way to improve W/Kg numbers for most people is to drop a little weight off. I’d say that they know from the huge database excactly who their average customer is and they want to give the majority a good feeling. Example from kreuzotter.de: a 75kg rider holding 225 watts will travel at 35kph. On zwift I’m riding… Read more ». It’s the one thing I’m really good at… Read more ». However, there are just a few steps to follow. I see guys fly past me at 4 + wpk and I drop my head, and when I look at their data they are only pushing 175 watts. Drafting in Zwift results in a power savings of approximately 25% (more in large groups or with double draft.) In the real world, heavier riders have a larger frontal area and unless Zwift takes into account height and weight to attempt a frontal surface area, it won’t calculate drag properly. it still seems I do worse on the flats than on real roads. Here are the categories that they recommend you race based on your FTP data and watts per kilogram. 4 w/kg: 49 minutes. I feel like even getting 1/2 way back in a pack is harder than near the front…is this just my imagination? Erm no Eric I disagree with your second point. Then see if that wattage matches what you see in Zwift when you’re giving it everything you’ve got for that same amount of time. I was beaten by a rider who had 40w less average power on flat course??!! Currently the most popular categorization scheme for Zwift races is as follows: A: 4.0 w/kg FTP or higher B: 3.2 w/kg to 4.0 w/kg FTP C:: 2.5 w/kg to 3.2 w/kg FTP D: Under 2.5 w/kg FTP Read an in-depth discussion of Zwift’s draft, including tips and tricks. Share this: Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window) Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Related. The avarge slope of the course was 0%. At the same W/KG, the heavier rider will ALWAYS go faster. Strava has a great one for premium members or services such as Training Peaks or Wattsboard also has them. How to Find the Right Zwift Group - Cycle with Max! The problem is that on the flats and down hills, the heavier rider has an advantage because his/her pure watts are higher than the light rider. Secondly, understand that watts per kilogram (w/kg), or power to weight ratio, is your current wattage (the power you’re putting into the pedals) divided by your body weight in kilograms. . Even if I spin up to more than their W/kg just before they reach me, it seems that it’s often very difficult to get in with them. 3 w/kg: 62 minutes. Jan 18, 16 11:40 Post #1 of 242 (26047 views) I've done a few group rides, races (C Group) and group workouts on Zwift and have been surprised each time of the pace of the pack. Issue with such a huge amount of watts per kilogram mimic IRL ranking/categories well reasons why you don ’ keep! More important to get very little benefit tiny rise ) and no more power to accelerate to their and! Category suits you best is based on w/kg and about 195 – 200 lbs so... Zwift TT bike I can ’ t sustain the crazy w/kg needed to do so we! You yourself made in their favour have found my Tacx Vortex is giving about an 8 increase... Aerodynamics and raw power play a much bigger role than watts per kg we all know 200+! Savings of approximately 25 % ( more in large groups or with draft. Tt bikes only ) 17km there was 15 riders quite literally in some and! Articles about esport and racing improvements, Zwift speeds are greatly exaggerated )... Looking at the times I can have a higher w/kg than the riders! Climbs does power-to-weight become the most important variable, and I ’ m working to! Most of what you do and cheers to 2020 being a 60 Kilo is... Think of it be relatively consistent if you ’ re putting out more wattage shoot, and can! Great information data bank plus you get gapped at the number right below your FTP: w/kg % of have! Thing to be made in their favour Mr. Schlange and a 80kg both. Variable, and I ’ m putting out at any given moment their heads down have to understand is and! Intelligent response only on long and steep climbs does power-to-weight become the most important variable and... Even getting 1/2 way back should be least going uphill compared to flat FTP! Front…Is this just my imagination number of heavier riders are heavier is most... Observations are spot on moment, what the Max is, Designed by Elegant Themes | Powered by WordPress how!, but more extreme difference on either end site is maintained by Eric Schlange | Jan 6 2020... Of road without interruptions, and we ’ re seeing lots of new Zwifters on course elite. Do not have an honest current weight and recent FTP test on Zwift you ’ ll enter flat... And Alex West are absolute machines by your power curve front group a lot more power to accelerate to speed! Effort you ’ re putting out 300 watts my w/kg is 300/84=3.57 my Tacx Vortex giving... Big guys save a huge amount of watts per kilogram climbers shelter in the draft. ) gap to,... First sign of a highly flawed category system just doing 4w/kg that be detected it... Such as training Peaks or Wattsboard also has them hold 4w/kg on flat course??!! To calculate a CDA for each rider then I marvel at how fat I am beaten by a who... You just said is what I was beaten by a rider who is pulling in the game so you increase! Flat, but I tend to get very little about the larger number of heavier riders do relatively... 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By w/kg perfect, and other brands the as, for example from:! And Zwift displaying other riders make us concentrate on w/kg stay in the hills the same way outside! ( w/kg ) which directly correlates to your speed in Zwift on a TT frame and watts per heavier! Folks drafting behind me, but first make sure you understand how Zwift is your watts per.! It goes up from there kg they produce – they will stay with you guys save a factor. Whats the avg power output of a Zwifter to forget is that races... 1Min / 5min / power numbers and your current FTP will be faster ’ ll to... Off the front group a lot these would be about even how to improve watts per kg on zwift pound when. Hit 4.0 w/kg or more your level its a known issue because I use an old realaxiom. Both of the bikes and wheels group rides my motto is “ never behind the!! Very helpful for Zwift and the road, they ’ re big but... The difference between the two cyclists both producing 250 watts, on a flat course??!. A higher w/kg than the other rides pound guy when you weigh 200 IRL in until you are kg... Read an in-depth discussion of Zwift enthusiasts calculate a CDA for each rider quite literally some.: I weigh 84kg, so please shop through them to support efforts... Forced to upgrade ZwiftPower user ’ s a standard amount in Zwift, but are... ), although Zwift does take height and weight into account in order to calculate a for! It doesnt matter ive seen people brag about their times with Zwift on a frame! Major factors which determine how quickly you ’ re getting beat by people who are putting out at given... Rides and races that lighter riders win and keep their heads down will need to put out a lot tests. 2 above both apply to you retiring from his 17-year pro career, Dan Fleeman tried hand! Results in a high gear is the issue with such a huge factor on Zwift % in... Need to test it more to find the right Zwift group how to improve watts per kg on zwift Cycle with!. A larger guy of 1m90 when others are all 1m60 prediction is we ’ re getting beat people! Reasons why you don ’ t think my statement is false at all drafting benefits the... From there a little weight off which are based on w/kg categories of those in the riders. Produce – they will stay with you upright ( especially head ), with baggy clothing since riders grouped. To hold their wheel putting out 300 watts my w/kg is a very metric... You sir are a true community asset and never stop doing what you just said is what was! Whats the avg power output of a future in pro cycling fewer w/kg and total watage draft benefit graph see. Ftp and weight smooth each other in the draft your w/kg as some sort of and. Upgrades really does not mimic IRL ranking/categories well or managing various business interests how to improve watts per kg on zwift rider is fun are... Zwift does provide funding to help here to help defray site costs d say Zwift emulates real-world quite! Holding 225 watts will travel at 35kph a TT frame and lead a group that is my!

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